subject: CEVO Announces FREE Team Fortress 2 Tournament
CEVO|Pipher
original topic posted Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 10:19 pm CST
CEVO LLC Announces FREE Team Fortress 2 Tournament
CEVO LLC (CYBER EVOLUTION) is excited to announce the CEVO Team Fortress 2 Tournament, an online event featuring $1000.00 dollars in cash prizes courtesy of CEVO (www.cevo.com).
“It is a pleasure to host the first North American Team Fortress 2 event here at CEVO. Many of the staff have been playing the game nonstop for the last week and a half and have had nothing but tremendous things to say about the game play and graphic quality,” said Charlie Plitt, CEO / President for CEVO LLC. “With the conclusion of this event, we will be looking to launch league based play with multiple divisions and we will be hiring on several gaming officials to support this effort so if you are interested apply today.”
The CEVO Team Fortress 2 Tournament is a double-elimination online event for gamers in the Team Fortress 2 community. The format of the tournament will be 6 v 6 using both ctf and cp maps. Registration is open starting Thursday, September 27, 2007 until Thursday, October 11th with Round 1 matches beginning on Monday, October 15th.
UPDATE: DUE TO THE OVERWHELMING DEMAND FROM THE TF2 COMMUNITY, THE TOURNAMENT HAS BEEN EXPANDED AGAIN. WE ARE NOW OFFERING UNLIMITED TEAM SLOTS
Prize Distribution:
• 1st - $500.00
• 2nd - $350.00
• 3rd - $150.00
Matches will be played twice per week on Monday and Thursday evenings. Teams will be permitted to dispute a maximum of two players per team. The CMN3 will be enabled for all matches.
Map Rotation and Scoring:
ctf_2fort - Two 15 minute halves, the team with most points after 30 minutes wins the match.
cp_dustbowl - First team to 4 points or most points after 60 minutes wins the match.
cp_granary - Play to 3 points or 30 minutes and switch sides. First team to 4 points wins the match or the highest score after 60 minutes.
cp_gravelpit - First team to 4 points or most points after 60 minutes wins the match.
cp_well - Play to 3 points or 30 minutes and switch sides. First team to 4 points wins the match or highest score after 60 minutes.
NOTE: All CP maps will be played until one team reaches the amount of points needed for that specific map. If the time limit expires, the score of the match will be reported as the score when the time limit expired.
General Rules and Configs:
In an effort to simplify the match process for all players, we have created a config for each of the 5 maps being used. The official CEVO TF2 server configs are required to be installed every match server. You can find the configs here: http://www.cevo.com/FILES/cevo_tf2_server_configs.zip or in the downloads section of our website.
- Friendly Fire: ON (If the cvar is available at the time of the tournament).
- Format: 6 v 6.
- Class restrictions - See updated news post.
- Killing during setup time is allowed.
- Matches will be played on Mondays and Thursdays.
- The CMN3 must be used for all matches.
- POV demos are required for all players, in all matches.
- Teams will play matches on their own private servers.
- ALL disputes must be filed within an hour of the conclusion of the match.
How To Register:
All players will need to a personal CEVO user account to participate in CEVO events. If you do not already have one, click "register now" under the CEVO Members section of the website and follow the instructions. Team Captains:
The Team Captain or Manager is responsible for registering their team for the event. Captains who have already created a team for another CEVO Counter-Strike 1.6 event do not need to create a new team - you can simply join this event with your current team. To sign your current team up for this event, login to your personal user account then go to "teams"->"view my teams" (or click "Manage My Teams" on the main account page). Click on the "manage" link corresponding to your team and then click "Sign Team Up for a CEVO Event".
If you are a Team Captain needing to create a team, login to your personal user account then go to "teams"->"create a team" (or click "Create a Team" on the main account page).
Once the team is created/registered for the event, each team member may join the roster by logging into their personal user account on the website and clicking “Join A Roster”. Team Players:
In order to join a roster, your team captain must have already registered your team for this event. Once that is done, to join the roster, login to your personal user account and click "teams"->"Join a Roster" (or simply click "Join a Roster" on the main account page).
On the Join Roster page, choose this event from the drop-down menu, then type all or part of the team name and click "Find Team". When the search finishes, click the "join" button corresponding to your team.
Feedback:
As this will be one of the very first Team Fortress 2 events, we NEED your feedback. We would love to hear what you think of the format, rules, configs, class restrictions, etc...
After our first tournament is over we will sit down, and with the communities input and make any necessary changes to our current format and rule set.
Like it says in the news post, we really do need your feedback.
We want to know what you like/dislike about...
- rules
- format
- scoring
- class restrictions
- maps
- anything else you can think of
This is YOUR chance to have an impact on CEVO's rule set for Team Fortress 2. After our first event is over, we are going to seriously consider any and all comments and suggestions. We listen!
mills
Evo Points: 13
#3 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 3:58 am CST
i liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike!
the milkman
Evo Points: 2
#4 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 6:39 am CST
yay cevo! :D:D
Mr_Butter
Evo Points: 142
#5 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 7:05 am CST
How do I sign up. There is no image on the top for tf2.
the milkman
Evo Points: 2
#6 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 7:23 am CST
"NOTE: Team registration will open at 5:00 PM CST on Thursday, September 27th."
FREDDY[Px5]
Evo Points: 4
#7 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 8:35 am CST
Looking for tf2 team. Contact me @ #meek
dwt.obsolete
Evo Points: 3
#8 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 12:33 pm CST
Well, the first good move is picking up a game that is amazingly fun, looks great, and is suitable for competition. I've been playing team-based FPS games for about 11 years, both competitively and casually. I also am currently a Master's student at the Guildhall, and I'm relatively decent at Level and Game Design with some experience on mod projects. I've posted similar thoughts on GotFrag, but I'll post here as well. Hopefully my feedback will help.
Rules
I think FF ON is good, although I would like to see a more extensive discussion on the positives and negatives, factoring in how the game plays in organized play versus PUBs. If Valve is reasonable it should be an option in the future, but right now it isn't. My first reaction is that FF OFF is worse, but just because it's been worse in other games doesn't necessarily mean it's worse in TF2. I'm not convinced it "breaks' the game, but we may not have a choice. The game is still fun FF Off and maybe even a little more fast-paced, too. It's questionable whether team damage is as core to the gameplay as we usually assume. Is it really anything more than a necessary evil? You may have also noticed that friendly team models have smaller blocking volumes than enemy models. This means that you don't get stuck on your teammates as easily and they are also harder to hit when FF is on. Would we want the blocking volumes changed as well? Also, I think critical hits are a bit random for organized play, but that's something we may never get to change. Just some things to think about :).
Format
6v6 isn't as bad as it sounds for people who are more experienced with the history of TF. I didn't play much TFC, and I came a little bit after the heyday of TF, so I'd like to think I don't have a lot of bias here. I'd like to say that it's in the best interest of the community to pick the overall best format, not just try and get away with the smallest number possible. I think 6v6 could be a little small since there is usually 1-2 dead people respawning at any given time. I think 7v7 would probably open up some more strategies...it wouldn't be unreasonable for someone to switch up classes to try an alternate strat, since if you go down that one man in 7v7 it's not nearly as bad as in 6v6. I think if you start going larger than 7v7 you start overcrowding most of the maps, as you get situations where it's a lot easier for organized teams to create impenetrable defenses. 10v10 and 12v12 works in PUB and maybe even PUG because the play is so random that you always have a ton of people in death limbo or just doing useless stuff. Also, the skill level is low enough that the bottom few players don't even count as a full player. Somewhere in the 6v6 to 8v8 range is ideal. Remember that once you start being able to dedicate 5+ to defense, the game gets campy and spammy. A 10-12 person team in a random group is probably around as effective as a 6-8 man organized team. Another practical consideration is new maps...if we ever want to incorporate community maps, it's a lot harder to build a good 12v12 map than a 6v6 map.
Scoring
It's not really clear to me, but I'm assuming a match = one map. Why does one map last 30 minutes and another last 60? I think 60 minutes of straight-up play is a little bit long...I think organizing every map into three 15-minute periods or 45 minutes total is better, both for future observers and for the players. I think standardized match lengths and organized periods/quarters/halves are necessary for any game that has the potential to be a player in the game competitions.
For 2Fort, just change it to 45, most total caps win. Eliminate the first to X points wins for the other maps and set the time limit to 45 minutes so we can have standardized match lengths that follow a similar format to most major team sports. Granary and Well you don't need to switch sides...they are the same. For dustbowl and gravelpit, just set the time limit to 45. Also, if you make winning about reaching a point limit, you are encouraging teams to overemphasize defense because the only sure way to win is to make sure your opponent doesn't score X points. This logic isn't waterproof, but I think in general score limits promote more defensive, campy play.
Class Restrictions
Restricting to 2 class types seems like a good default. If you get too specific you start dictating the strategies, but if you don't have restrictions we will get really lame strats that are imba. The only change might have to happen if it becomes clear that some classes need to be restricted to only 1 per team.
Maps
For me, the ideal map setup is Gravelpit...it has a great dynamic of having to set up defenses at two diff CPs and having to choose where to attack, but it still all leads to the third point, which helps eliminate cheese tactics from being successful for more than capturing one or sometiems two points. It's basically CS-bomb plant style with a slight twist and it works well.
Dustbowl is like stopwatch in RTCW/ET but without the stopwatch...I'd prefer that to be adjusted, but still the map is pretty cool. Well and Granary can go to OT too much imo and Granary seems overall not quite as solid as Well. 2Fort has way too many places where you can setup an impenetrable defense if you don't suck a fat one. I would make a longer argument about why 2Fort shouldn't be in the rotation, but it's too early to combat the "OMG it's 2Fort!" factor. Once people get over the nostalgia, I think people will realize how lame it's going to be in organized play. Kind of like how the Edge never took on in Q3 and Q4.
Pro Mod
Given Valve's history with competitive play, it's likely we will need a pro mod at some point. I can help with this, but my plate is too full for the next 6 months, so hopefully someone will take up the challenge. if not, it's something I would like to work on eventually, and I can probably get some people together to create new maps.
Anyone Recruiting?
I would like to play some matches for a team that is organized but doesn't require exorbitant amounts of practice. I work around 70 hrs a week, but I've competed in FPS for about 11 years (and already played 50+ hrs of TF2), and I like to do it for fun. You also have to understand if I have huge milestones coming up and can't really hang out a lot on IRC. I'm 25 and would prefer to find a like-minded team that enjoys competing without it being the #1 priority in life. I'm located in Dallas, TX. Send me a message...adobbs on steam.
dwt.obsolete
Evo Points: 3
#9 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 12:46 pm CST
ESL Rules might work, too...30 minutes for 2fort, well, and granary and 4 rounds on dustbowl and gravelpit with each team attacking and defending twice. Keep sudden death rules for the first three, and if there is a tie on any of the maps add up total points for the winner.
squiz
Evo Points: 4
#10 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 1:00 pm CST
first of all i would like to thank cevo for pickin up tf2.. i think its a great idea, just like everyone else. keep in mind that this community is nothing like the counter-strike community and i personally believe this game will be a great success because its fairly new. considering the fact that TFC died almost 5 years ago we really dont have to deal with a vast amount of people complaining and crying over ridiculous things in the game. my only concerns at the moment are class restrictions. personally i feel like 2 of every class on certain maps will really gimp the play. some classes at the moment are very imbalanced, such as spys, engs, and medics. i think putting a limit on spys, medics, and engs to one per team will really balance the game play a little bit. not like there is a lot of room for 2 of each in every match or scrim. but from my own personal expierence thus far, i believe those are the only classes that should have limits as of right now.
from the scrims ive played this are the limits we've agreed on upon.
1 medic
2 scouts
2 soliders
1 demo
1 hw
1 spy
1 sniper
1 eng
2 pyros (not like it matters ;X)
also another concern of mine is at the end of every map (when time runs out), sudden death. what are we going to do about that? is valve hopefully removing this thing? also on the score tabs is there anyway to add an extra line to see total points for the team?
well thats all i had to say it probably makes no sense at all since i just woke up. im very excited for cevo and other leagues picking up our game =). lets stick together as a community for this one.
~ squiz | #clandwt
kcp
Evo Points: 20
#11 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 1:19 pm CST
I like
sang
Evo Points: 21
#12 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 1:28 pm CST
AWESOMENESS! <3 CEVO
Prevailant
Evo Points: 2
#13 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 2:27 pm CST
The scrim classes need to be changed. 2 Medic's, 2 Demo's, and 2 Engineer's will completely change the game play. Since its a 6v6 1 Demoman, 1 Engineer, 1 Medic, and 2 Scout's should be applied.
pyrogenix
Evo Points: 5
#14 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 2:36 pm CST
Completely agree. 2fort is already bad enough because its so easily defended, but 2 demomen will guarantee no one gets a cap all game. The same applies to engineers. I can't even imagine what 2 medics would do to the gameplay :|...
Anyway, it's already been typically accepted and used unanimously by the community currently playing TF2 that 1 medic, 1 engineer, 1 demoman and 2 scouts are the proper limits.
pyrogenix
Evo Points: 5
#15 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 2:37 pm CST
Er, 1 heavy/spy/sniper and 2 Pyros as well.
tenringer
Evo Points: 1
#16 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 2:52 pm CST
Why do we need to play 2 halves for 2fort, granary, and well? They are symmetrical. The sides are even.
George
Evo Points: 7
#17 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 3:14 pm CST
I have been playing this game non-stop since it came out and have been scrimming for just over a week every night with the Doctors. I also know a little bit about competitive gaming so here is my feedback. I hope it doesn't get ignored because I'm a CPL employee. If or when the CPL/CAL uses TF2, these are the things I would push for right now.
You're going to run into many problems. First of all, you need some type of stopwatch mod for Dustbowl or Gravelpit so teams can compete against their attack times if they cap the final points. It's a different type of CP format where 1 team attacks and the other defends unlike Granary or Well where you do both. With 2 evenly matched teams, the team that starts on offense will most likely win if you just use a 60 minute time limit, especially using a 6v6 format on those maps.
6v6 in general is bad on Dustbowl & Gravelpit unless you lower the spawn time to at least 10 seconds. Leaving it the way it is I'd allow teams to play 7v7 or 8v8 on those 2 maps. It's incredibly easy to attack on those maps 6v6 which is why there will be an advantage for the team that attacks first. So if you can't come up with some form of a stopwatch mod where teams compete against each others attack times (RTCW), either lower the spawn time or allow 7v7 & 8v8 on Dustbowl and Gravelpit. In the future these maps NEED a stopwatch mod.
Question, is sudden death going to be used? Because it's a wonderful pub idea but a horrible competitive idea especially considering there's no incentive to move forward and put yourself at risk. So for example, on a map like Granary or Well, if 1 team has 3 or 4 out of the 5 points captured and the round ends, they should get the point for that round (a mod might be needed for something like that or you'll just need to reset the game/score and keep score yourselves). A team who gets dominated all map and can barely hold 1 out of 5 points on the map who flukes out a win in sudden death since you can't spawn when dead should not be awarded with 1 point for winning that round. I could also see there being a lot of stalemates which is just really boring to play or view as a spectator.
As for class restrictions. What I find is most balanced on all maps overall if you use the 6v6 format for all games is 1 heavy, 1 medic, 1 spy, 1 demo man and 1 engineer with allowing 2 of everything else. If you allow 2 of every class, let me paint you a scenario. You got 2 medics, 2 heavy's, and 2 spy's. You're trying to take the last point. You wait until Uber is up and Uber the 2 heavy's and just kill anything close by while you run straight to the last capture point while being invincible. Even if the defending team counters with 2 Ubers of their own, everyone is just going to be waiting on the last point for that one last showdown. Let me explain further.
So with 2 medics, that allows 4 out of 6 of your players to be invincible and move anywhere they want on the map killing anything in their path. You use the 2 spy's to take out any demoman that might have put mines on the last point, then they unstealth to help you capture it. It doesn't take long to capture points in this game so with more than half the team invisible, if you don't kill them all instantly once the Uber runs out, the game is over anyways. And we're talking about 2 heavy's with 2 healers on them which won't be easy to kill. Even if you waste time killing the healers, the heavy's will capture the point. It's going to force all 12 people stand on the last capture point so when the Uber runs out you hope you can kill all instantly.
Defending points should be all about teamwork and positioning all over the maps in a game like this. Not about having a 6v6 showdown on a small circle capture point because a majority of the offensive team will be invisible running straight to the last capture point. This is just 1 scenario, but there are many cheesy strategies that also involve 2 demoman using their spam and remote mines. 2 Spy's can also be very overpowering and cheesy as they 1 shot things coming out of stealth. Now 2 engineers might not seem too bad on some maps, but overall you can come up with some very defensive strategies, even on maps you need to attack on as well (2fort, granary, well) which will not only make the game not enjoyable for everyone participating, it will be horrible as a spectator.
Hell, on a map like 2Fort I'd even vote to allow no engineers at all since it slows down the game play so much. I've scrimmed a few matches on 2fort with no engineers and all the other class restrictions and it was by far the most fun I had on that horrible turtling map. As a spectator it's also something I'd love to watch. However, this is just my personal preference and don't see all the old school TF players accepting no engineers on 2Fort, but when I think about competitive play I look at things from all angles. So again, I strongly recommend you consider what I've posted and definitely use these class restrictions:
first of all i would like to thank cevo for pickin up tf2.. i think its a great idea, just like everyone else. keep in mind that this community is nothing like the counter-strike community and i personally believe this game will be a great success because its fairly new. considering the fact that TFC died almost 5 years ago we really dont have to deal with a vast amount of people complaining and crying over ridiculous things in the game. my only concerns at the moment are class restrictions. personally i feel like 2 of every class on certain maps will really gimp the play. some classes at the moment are very imbalanced, such as spys, engs, and medics. i think putting a limit on spys, medics, and engs to one per team will really balance the game play a little bit. not like there is a lot of room for 2 of each in every match or scrim. but from my own personal expierence thus far, i believe those are the only classes that should have limits as of right now.
from the scrims ive played this are the limits we've agreed on upon.
1 medic
2 scouts
2 soliders
1 demo
1 hw
1 spy
1 sniper
1 eng
2 pyros (not like it matters ;X)
also another concern of mine is at the end of every map (when time runs out), sudden death. what are we going to do about that? is valve hopefully removing this thing? also on the score tabs is there anyway to add an extra line to see total points for the team?
well thats all i had to say it probably makes no sense at all since i just woke up. im very excited for cevo and other leagues picking up our game =). lets stick together as a community for this one.
~ squiz | #clandwt
I agree with your all your class restrictions that you've listed except for snipers. I don't see 2 snipers being overpowered on any map. Also, you need to consider the sniper class in general. In order to be efficient as a sniper you need to have incredible aim. This skill should not be limited like the other classes which you can easily exploit. It doesn't take skill to Uber, put up multiple sentry's, use multiple spy's, spam as a heavy or demoman or lay remote mines as a demoman.
These are why those classes should be limited to 1. It takes skill to dominate as a sniper which is something I'd love to see. Not that I'd use 2 snipers on my team since it can be a huge disadvantage as they are very easy to counter unlike 2 of those overpowering classes we've both agreed to limit, but if another team was willing to risk that much by using 2 snipers, then all the power to them. We shouldn't limit a class to 1 that takes more skill than most. If a team can win with 2 snipers, then they've earned it. [ Last edited by George on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 5:20 pm CST ]
George
Evo Points: 7
#20 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 3:32 pm CST
George wrote:
I agree with your all your class restrictions that you've listed except for snipers. I don't see 2 snipers being overpowered on any map. Also, you need to consider the sniper class in general. In order to be efficient as a sniper you need to have incredible aim. This skill should not be limited like the other classes which you can easily exploit. It doesn't take skill to Uber, put up multiple sentry's, use multiple spy's, spam as a heavy or demoman or lay remote mines as a demoman.
These are why those classes should be limited to 1. It takes skill to dominate as a sniper which is something I'd love to see. Not that I'd use 2 snipers on my team since it can be a huge disadvantage as they are very easy to counter unlike 2 of those overpowering classes we've both agreed to limit, but if another team was willing to risk that much by using 2 snipers, then all the power to them. We should limit a class to 1 that takes more skill than most. If a team can win with 2 snipers, then they've earned it.
Since I can't seem to find an edit button, I just wanted to add that I meant it doesn't take AS MUCH skill to do some of those things I listed when compared to sniping headshots. All classes take skill in 1 way or another, but some are much easier to exploit and those are the ones that need to be limited to 1.
squiz
Evo Points: 4
#21 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 3:36 pm CST
George wrote:
I agree with your all your class restrictions that you've listed except for snipers. I don't see 2 snipers being overpowered on any map. Also, you need to consider the sniper class in general. In order to be efficient as a sniper you need to have incredible aim. This skill should not be limited like the other classes which you can easily exploit. It doesn't take skill to Uber, put up multiple sentry's, use multiple spy's, spam as a heavy or demoman or lay remote mines as a demoman.
These are why those classes should be limited to 1. It takes skill to dominate as a sniper which is something I'd love to see. Not that I'd use 2 snipers on my team since it can be a huge disadvantage as they are very easy to counter unlike 2 of those overpowering classes we've both agreed to limit, but if another team was willing to risk that much by using 2 snipers, then all the power to them. We should limit a class to 1 that takes more skill than most. If a team can win with 2 snipers, then they've earned it.
i agree with what your saying about the sniper class ( i also should of given more reasoning behind my restriction list like you did but you pretty much covered everything i wanted to say) i was just stating what the teams ive played against have agreed upon. im just glad people are giving the game the attention it deserves =).
~squiz | #clandwt
X-Spider
Evo Points: 7
#22 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 3:44 pm CST
10 PM EDT would be a good time to play these matches, as some of us have CAL matches during the week. [ Last edited by X-Spider on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 3:44 pm CST ]
dwt.obsolete
Evo Points: 3
#23 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 3:45 pm CST
I would like to second George's list on class restrictions. I haven't played in scrims yet, but what he says makes perfect sense based on the game. If it's already obvious to the community that these limits should be in place then we should use them. I would also like to mention that Doctors is a great team with a long history in class-based teamplay, so I would trust their judgment because they've played at such a high level in the past (RtCW comes to mind). I haven't had this much fun with a team game since RtCW, so I am definitely looking forward to this. Now all I need is a team to play/practice with.
eX
Evo Points: 20
#24 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 4:59 pm CST
Anyone know if you can sign up yet? I dont see it any where as of now. Oh, hit me up on IRC if you are looking for a team. #FaAClan
peace
Evo Points: 1
#25 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 5:01 pm CST
I think as people come together everybody will agree on 7v7 format with the major classes limited at just one, you know the heavy the demo medic and engineer, people will start playing like CNBL, their whole goal to "gay" people and piss people off. I think class limitations is for the betterment of the game, and to make it more enjoyable, and as far as 7v7 goes, i think it will add that x factor in, and speed the game up a bit.
George
Evo Points: 7
#26 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 5:17 pm CST
Gibbs wrote:
I think as people come together everybody will agree on 7v7 format with the major classes limited at just one, you know the heavy the demo medic and engineer, people will start playing like CNBL, their whole goal to "gay" people and piss people off. I think class limitations is for the betterment of the game, and to make it more enjoyable, and as far as 7v7 goes, i think it will add that x factor in, and speed the game up a bit.
I think everyone would agree that 5v5 is too small. 6v6 is very borderline but I think a big portion of the competitive community is pushing this format because if TF2 makes appearances in LAN tournaments, it's much easier to deal 6v6 as opposed to 7v7. I could see most organizations not even attempt to host 7v7 or 8v8 on LAN because of the logistics involved.
I agree 7v7 would overall be the better format (with the same class restrictions) for this game if all you ever did was play online, but we all know what is usually used at LAN events is what is usually played and practiced online since most teams play to eventually progress to an elite level.
RTCW started out 7v7 for awhile but right before the first major LAN event, it was switched to 6v6 and later adopted by all existing events and leagues. The exact same thing happened with CS. However it started as 6v6 and when 1 major LAN event switched to 5v5, well, the rest is history.
jinn_
Evo Points: 4
#27 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 5:34 pm CST
Great discussion so far, but how do we register? I just logged on and made a team but can't figure out where to register it. Help please!
Xanatos
Evo Points: 1
#28 posted Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 9:40 pm CST
a note on the 2 15 minute halves for ctf_2fort: It's a ctf map, like most of these it's perfectly symmetrical and therefore there is no need for 2 halves.
Nimble
Evo Points: 1
#29 posted Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 12:09 am CST
Well, why does football play two halves? Or 4 quarters? The field is symmetrical. The reason you play two halves is to get an opportunity to change up your tactics after having seen the opposite team play. It gives you a small downtime to fix whats wrong and apply it to the rest of the match instead of doing it in the hectic match itself.
As for class limits, I'll just reiterate what everyone else has said, 1 eng, 1 demo, 1 medic, 1 hw, else 2. Should work well.
tiCk
Evo Points: 6
#30 posted Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 10:33 am CST
This game is super duper.
I repeat, this game is super duper.
With that said, I can't wait for this tournament. I haven't had this much fun in a game since RtCW. I must admit my stomach churned a little when I saw George and the Doctors name, but that's only because i knew a 4 page post was coming. ;)
I've done a little scrimming so far in TF2 and I could argue both sides to the class limit debate. I see the fun of having 1 or fewer engi's, but I also like the long defensive games sometimes. The straight 2 class limit sounds like a better place to start, though. We should see how it plays out in the tournament, and then tweak it from there. George had a very colorful story about the two meds, two heavy's strolling in, but what map would that really be effective on? It takes roughly, and i'm rounding down, 8 years for a heavy to get to, and cap, a point... especially on gravel pit. Furthermore, the medic needles can barely reach the top of the tower in C. Uber doesn't last long enough to matter too much. You might knock out a sentry, but if the enemy team hides for few seconds, no big loss.
George is dead on the money with snipers. They are a gamble. Two great snipers can totally lock down 2fort and well, or can make the game 4v6 if they're terrible.
Engineers... yuck. I can't count the number of sentry guns I've built in the wrong direction. So I can't comment on how effective they or how many we should have. But I do like the challenge of killing a sentry.
Stopwatch is a must for future competitive play. It's the main thing that made RtCW so fantastical. Setting a time, beating a time, defending a time, are all great ingredients for nail biting action and for interesting, entertaing, and spectator friendly gameplay.
I should probably wrap this up. My last item is the X factor that keeps getting mentioned. The biggest X factor is momentum. Which is why I support the two halves idea. It's nice to get a few minutes in the middle to adapt or solidify your strategy based on what just happened. Plus, if you're spending the whole match staring at a bit of yourself, then it's nice to regroup and focus. As far as the flip flopping, I know the maps are symmetrical, but for some reason, I can snipe the red team better than the blue team. I just find the targets easier. So, I would hate to play an entire match as red shooting at blue. I also own several pairs of lucky socks.
I look forward to shooting you fellas, George.
That's it for now... Eh.
-DeviantDuck
Team HardTastic
Brought to you by Fishy Joe's.
Ride the walrus!
phys1kz
Evo Points: 2
#31 posted Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 11:28 am CST
Gibbs wrote:
I think as people come together everybody will agree on 7v7 format with the major classes limited at just one, you know the heavy the demo medic and engineer, people will start playing like CNBL, their whole goal to "gay" people and piss people off. I think class limitations is for the betterment of the game, and to make it more enjoyable, and as far as 7v7 goes, i think it will add that x factor in, and speed the game up a bit.
Limiting every class to 1 pretty much leaves no diversity to strategy at all. People are going to for the most part use the exact same setups at all times if they're limited to 1 of each (as we know Pyros at the moment aren't a very viable choice when it comes to defending anything but a small hallway and Spies are only a good choice for certain scenarios). Allowing for 2 snipers, 2 scouts, or 2 soldiers allow for different strategic setups to take place, as well as different counters to a team that may be turtling. 2 snipers I think especially should be implemented, as my teammate George has mentioned they require great skill to use efficiently, as there are VERY few opportunities to actually charge up a full shot which is where most of their power lies. Also, they're the only counter to a good heavy/medic combo besides a couple of lucky crits from a Soldier or a Demoman.
Also, as George mentioned, respawn timers have to be looked at closely. As from my experience from a few scrims on well or granery, It seems with the respawn timers at what they're at now allows teams to score a few important kills, cap one point and be able to move into favourable positioning on the next point without the defense being able to set up properly again. I think in about every single scrim we've played in, we've been able to cap the middle point and move all the way to the last point and cap without much of a fight.
Again, the class restrictions SHOULD be as follows.
Experience in scrims again shows that two demoman have been extremely over powered, and hypothetical situations such as two cross-fired turrets or two stealthed classes capturing a conrtol point seem unreasonable. I think its important to seriously consider what George has written down. We, the Doctors, have been scrimming this game since the first opportunities available and have a lot of knowledge of competitive gameplay from a wide-scope of games (Our teammates alone have played 1.6, Source, CoD, Quake 3 TDM, Painkiller, Quake 3 and 4 1v1, RTCW as I'm sure many other games which aren't coming to mind at the top level. George is also an employee of the CPL and is probably one of the most, if not the most knowledgeable person in the industry in competitive game play as he's experience both the competitive and the structural side of large tournament game play.)
Microbe
Evo Points: 1
#32 posted Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 12:27 pm CST
I totally agree with George's format.
jaxor
Evo Points: 4
#33 posted Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 12:52 pm CST
I don't agree with class restrictions. It has to be better to balance the classes rather than restrict the them. That just seems like a quick fix (just like taking out FF to cover up other problems). Perhaps by the time the game is released and this tournament starts there will be better balance, seeing as they keep updating every other day.
Here are a couple things Valve could try to prevent class restrictions in every league. It should take more than 2 hits for an engineer to repair his sentry. So, when a soldier shoots 4 rockets in a row at it, it's not still at full health while the engineer hides behind it. They could tone down the damage on demoman stickies. They seem to do way more damage than necessary. I really don't understand limiting heavies; they seem to be just fine the way they are. However, scout shotguns do too much damage. Or maybe they just crit too much. Either way something needs to be changed about them. [ Last edited by jaxor on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 12:52 pm CST ]
rythem-
Evo Points: 6
#34 posted Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 2:09 pm CST
First off, thank you CEVO for supporting this game. It looks to have a promising future and this game really is a lot of fun. But, the class limit restrictions really should change for your upcoming tournament. 2 of every class is a bit much in many ways (most stated above.) I can see it being more lenient with a larger league, (8v8+) but as it stands with 6v6, I feel the game becomes overkill.
Too many demo's, engineers, heavies, medic's, and snipers will take a lot of "fun" out of the game for many people. Heavies will rely on both medic's to go uber and run through an entire defense, engineers will double up on sentries making it virtually impossible to pass through area's, put demo's on top of that? Or, you have 2 snipers that can single handedly destroy an entire defense or offense from across the map. Too much of anything is a bad thing, and I don't want to imagine the unholy amount of boredom the game will arise to. Limiting class restrictions makes the game more challenging on many levels because it forces people to constantly adapt and change. This makes for a much more enjoyable game overall.
This is what I believe is the best limit for classes.
Most team's I've talked to and scrimmed against agree before the scrim on this limit.
Let me start by saying that I started scrimming in TF2 a couple of days after the beta release with a pug team I created, and have scrimmed 4-5 times nearly every day since (with that pug team, and now with my formed clan - #jailbait).
"You're going to run into many problems. First of all, you need some type of stopwatch mod for Dustbowl or Gravelpit so teams can compete against their attack times if they cap the final points. It's a different type of CP format where 1 team attacks and the other defends unlike Granary or Well where you do both. With 2 evenly matched teams, the team that starts on offense will most likely win if you just use a 60 minute time limit, especially using a 6v6 format on those maps."
100% TRUE. Stopwatch NEEDS to be taken into consideration on Dustbowl and Gravelpit. Both maps are very favourable to Offense, and between two teams that are evenly matched, it will almost always result in OFFENSE winning every time.
Let's say Team A starts as Defense and Team B starts as Offense.
Let's say Team A performs better than Team B, because as Defense they were able to defend for 25 minutes, and as Offense they were able to penetrate and capture in 5 minutes.
Team B on the other hand, took 25 minutes to capture and were only able to defend for 5 minutes - no worry Team B, since you started off as Offense, you will naturally get your 4th point before Team A. (Definite problem)
Dustbowl & Gravelpit need to be 2 rounds. 1 round as Team A offense, Team B as defense. Then another round when they switch. Then simply compare the time it took Team A to capture all 3 'mini-levels' to the time it took Team B to capture all 3 'mini-levels'. This will give a fair result and end up with the better performing team as the winner - not just who got to be offense first. If no 'stopwatch mod' is available, this can easily be tallyed by the remaining time left in the rounds when the final capture point is captured.
If - of course, Team B ends up defending for the entire first round until time expires, they will naturally win, unless Team A can defend the entire second round (I don't see this happening very often, or ever, as the map is so favourable to OFFENSE that if a team is solid enough to defend for the entire round, they will most definitely have an easy time penetrating their opponents on offense). If this does happen though, you will have to come up with some sort of tie breaker - such as tallying up the kills(points) accumulated by each team in both rounds and the team with the highest amount of kills(points) wins.
The exact same format could be applied to gravelpit - to also ensure a fair match experience for both teams.
So please - set a round time to 20-30 minutes or something, and have teams play one 20-30 minute round on defense, and one 20-30 minute round on offense instead of "First to 4 points".
- ctf_2fort - Two 15 minute halves, the team with most points after 30 minutes wins the match. - this I completely agree with, remove the capture limit (default is usually 3 or 4) and let Team A play one 15 minute round on their server and Team B play one 15 minute round on their server, team with the most captures wins - tie game? - no problem, 15 minute overtime (first capture wins).
Since the map is symetrical, Well should only be 1 round. This would also eliminate any chance of a tie. One 30 minute round - the winning team is the team that either captures ALL control points, or has the most control points captured when the match ends.
One problem that people might pose with this format is that a team's strategy might be to hopefully overcome the middle capture point, and then just TuRtLe the middle for the whole game.
Well is designed in a way that puts a team that does that almost at as much of a disadvantage as they are at an advantage, if they do not at least try to keep pushing and capture the 4th and final control point.
Personally I think there should only be a limit on Demomen and Engineers. 2 or more Demomen or Engineers can be annoying on 2forts. Limiting to only 1 of each makes sense.
Some other classes it wouldn't really make sense to play more than 1 or 2 of, such as spy, pyro, sniper. So there really should not be any limit on these classes.
It also is very unlikely to run 3 of any other class other than SOLDIER - which I think clans should be allowed to run 3 or more of. Limiting to only 2 soldiers does not make any sense.
I've yet to see a team run more than 1 HWGuy and I am not really certain if running 2 or more would cause any sort of problem.
Limiting scouts - also a huge misconception - if a team does not run enough 'heavies' and rely on scouts, they're going to get mowed down by sentry guns and the like - scouts aren't nearly as 'over-powered' as people seem to think they are - BUT it WOULD make sense to allow clans to run as many scouts as they want, so that smart clans (would only use 1, or no scouts) and then depending on certain situations may use 2 or more scouts to help a flag push.
Besides Engineer and Demoman, the only other actual controversial class is Medic, but I am still pretty sure that the class does not have to be limited. Medics are extremely formidable and a necessary part of battle, but the more medics you use, the less firepower you end up with (again - there is balance).
You also have to consider that the more LIMITS you place on classes, the less variety and intricacy clans can have, and it will become one big generic standard layout that each clan uses for every map and become extremely boring - the opposite of what TF is supposed to be.
So again, keeping the limits to the absolute bare minimum should be 20x more desirable for everyone than placing a whole bunch of them.
Final Suggestion: 1 Demoman, 1 Engineer per team, no other limits.
chrono
Evo Points: 2
#36 posted Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 2:25 pm CST
rythem- wrote:
First off, thank you CEVO for supporting this game. It looks to have a promising future and this game really is a lot of fun. But, the class limit restrictions really should change for your upcoming tournament. 2 of every class is a bit much in many ways (most stated above.) I can see it being more lenient with a larger league, (8v8+) but as it stands with 6v6, I feel the game becomes overkill.
Too many demo's, engineers, heavies, medic's, and snipers will take a lot of "fun" out of the game for many people. Heavies will rely on both medic's to go uber and run through an entire defense, engineers will double up on sentries making it virtually impossible to pass through area's, put demo's on top of that? Or, you have 2 snipers that can single handedly destroy an entire defense or offense from across the map. Too much of anything is a bad thing, and I don't want to imagine the unholy amount of boredom the game will arise to. Limiting class restrictions makes the game more challenging on many levels because it forces people to constantly adapt and change. This makes for a much more enjoyable game overall.
This is what I believe is the best limit for classes.
Most team's I've talked to and scrimmed against agree before the scrim on this limit.
I'd just like to take a moment to state that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You start with a 100% complete contradiction (classic) by saying that medics+heavies = unstoppable offense, then completely contradict yourself by saying demomen+engineers=unstoppable defense... so if you use both, where does the stopping happen smart guy?
You end off saying "Limiting class restrictions makes the game more challenging on many levels because it forces people to constantly adapt and change. This makes for a much more enjoyable game overall."
How does creating LIMITS force people to constantly adapt and change?!?!?! it forces the opposite! You set limits and you'll never see any differences in anyone's offense or defense, they'll become standard because it won't be worth trying anything else since limits are in place.
Please... for all of you that are trying to form some sort of opinion based on your PuB experience, please refrain from doing so.
Flandez
Evo Points: 26
#37 posted Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 11:48 pm CST
I personally think uber charge needs to be looked at if you allow 2 medics. It's a complete defense breaker and I just don't see the point. If I had my way it wouldn't be in the game, I can dream.
Anyway, the biggest example is obviously Dustbowl, you can get uber charge going right out of the gate and then the defense is gone. If it's a heavy you can't be anywhere close meaning you let them walk close to the cap. If it's a soldier technically you can be closer but if they get a magically random crit...yea.
This obviously applies to any map where a static defense is used.
My solutions range from no attacking while it's up so it's used as a panic button if you are taking too much heat or shorten the duration to generally bring it more down to earth.
Of course I have no mod experience and if this can't be modded it's a moot point.
neomatrix
Evo Points: 2
#38 posted Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 1:07 pm CST
After scrimming on all the maps several times, and playing 2fort into the ground, I believe the following restrictions would be the best:
2 Scouts
(A team using more than 2 scouts on a map like granary can easily offset the balance of the map due to its sheer size. In open field combat a good scout can be insanely hard to hit while still demolishing people, let alone three or more. Thus, they should have a 2 scout limit.)
2 Soldiers
(Having more than 2 soldiers gives teams a big advantage on maps like 2fort, since now they can rj up battlements,grate, and have one medic bot'd coming through. And lets face it, rockets have alot of stopping power, especially crit rockets. Giving a team too many soldiers just gives them too much burst damage to take out the other team on D or on O. Soldiers should be limited to 2.)
2 Pyro's
(Unsure of current balance of pyro's after recent changes, in my eyes they are a very situational class. Haven't tested much with em, so just let people have 2 at most.)
2 Snipers
(Good snipers can sway the battle in their teams favor in a huge way, however bad snipers are a waste of space. Having 2 insane snipers on your team is overpowering, while having 2 horrible snipers on your team is practically worthless. 2 is too many in the right hands... idk :X)
1 Medic
(More than 1 medic is just overpowering, giving a team teh ability to build up 2 ubers is just wrong, and should not be allowed in competition. All you will see is people just constantly waiting for both ubers to push. In one scrim a team used 2 heavies & 2 medics to defend their last point.... yeaaa)
1 Demo
(Demo's are huge on defense and on offense, more so on defense. Having 2 sets of stickies plus nade spam on D is just overpowering. Especially on maps like 2fort where there is only 2 ways into the basement. Having more than one demo turns the game into a turtling game and it just plain old isn't fun anymore.)
1 Engineer
(More than 1 set of engineer deployables isn't impossible to get past, but it sure makes attacking alot harder. In competition you rarely have a chance to peek and hit a turret at your leisure, as there is almost always someone coming to help. Now add a 2nd turret and try to break that d. The only way is with a well placed uber, and forcing players into using only 1 strat to break a defense makes it no fun.)
1 Heavy
(Heavies are easy targets and killing machines at the same time. Its all about positioning, and keeping your medic covered. If you are using 2 heavies and there are limited bottlenecks through a map, it is just too many heavies. Limiting to one should keep thing interesting.)
1 Spy
(Backstabbing is just too strong, It happens to the best of us, and every time you get backstabbed you just say to yourself f'in spy.. cause there was nothing you could do about it. However, if the spies are horrible, just like sniper case, there are worthless to your team. So its a give or take here, but all around I think more than 1 Spy is too many.)
I understand that the admins want to keep things interesting by giving players choices as to what strats they want to use and how many of each class where. However, allowing more than 1 of some classes shifts the game to being a very defensive heavy game. Having more than 1 demo, engineer, medic, or heavy just allows too many options for a strong defense and makes the game unfun for the other team. It then forces the other team to use just as many in their defense or lose pretty much, not giving them a choice. We have scrimmed many different teams with varying skill levels over the past week and before CEVO rules were posted the class restrictions were usually 1 demo, 1 engi, 1 medic, 1 heavy,1 spy. Although there were no restrictions on soldier, pyro, sniper, or scout etc... I think that was wrong because the other team would just fill all extra slots with soldiers. While limiting classes as I mentioned above teams will still have lots of choices for their strats in 6v6, however, with larger team sizes I can see issues arising.
i208khonsu
Evo Points: 6
#39 posted Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 10:41 pm CST
I really like the scoring and map rotation settings. However changing things like Friendly Fire and only 2 classes at the same time will throw the balance of the game out the window.
First off class restrictions are not only unnecessary, but are also impossible to enforce. The great thing about video gaming is that the rules of the game can not be bartered or argued with, you either can do something, or you can't. Furthermore proving a disbute that somebody was using 3 Demomen can be next to impossible with only POV demos. Finally the current balance of the game does not warrent such a restriction.
Sure it can be aggravating if a team is going all out on one class; however balance has proven against over stacking a team on one class. With engineers there simply isn't enough ammunition and metal around to supplement all of their building in the time they need to accomplish it, furthermore with several engineers running around it's impossible to pick out spies. Demomen, Soldiers, and Snipers are too slow and take too much time to reload to be a constant effective force. Scouts, Spies, and Medics are far too soft of targets and are easily taken out by the Pyro. The Pyro's range is too short to go up against anything with range. Finally the Heavy is far too slow to adapt to other faster team strategies. Restricting classes is only going to make some class combinations far to strong and will in fact imbalance and stagnant the gameplay.
Adding Friendly Fire also kill much of the balance in the game. With Friendly Fire dispensers can no longer be used to create walls and slow down Scouts, or stop Spies as your team members will not clip on them. Also because all team members now clip it further increases the effectiveness of Spies making it even harder to tell them from your team members. Furthermore the Pyro can no longer sweep the base for Spies and is far too much of a danger igniting his whole team in combat to be useful. Similarly with the heavy as well as he can now no longer be used as a meat shield to fire rockets through when penetrating defenses.
I am looking forward to this tournament and am currently pulling together a team to compete in it. However I feel with the current rule set that the game you propose will be heavy on Scouts, Spies, and Engineers with Pyro, Heavy, and Soldier too dangerous to use and will degenerate the game into an unplayable level.
uno
Evo Points: 26
#40 posted Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 2:15 am CST
u HAVE To limit medics down to 1 from two.
ugh medic trains are already becoming the norm in scrims.
Flandez
Evo Points: 26
#41 posted Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 11:39 pm CST
i208khonsu wrote:
I really like the scoring and map rotation settings. However changing things like Friendly Fire and only 2 classes at the same time will throw the balance of the game out the window.
First off class restrictions are not only unnecessary, but are also impossible to enforce. The great thing about video gaming is that the rules of the game can not be bartered or argued with, you either can do something, or you can't. Furthermore proving a disbute that somebody was using 3 Demomen can be next to impossible with only POV demos. Finally the current balance of the game does not warrent such a restriction.
Sure it can be aggravating if a team is going all out on one class; however balance has proven against over stacking a team on one class. With engineers there simply isn't enough ammunition and metal around to supplement all of their building in the time they need to accomplish it, furthermore with several engineers running around it's impossible to pick out spies. Demomen, Soldiers, and Snipers are too slow and take too much time to reload to be a constant effective force. Scouts, Spies, and Medics are far too soft of targets and are easily taken out by the Pyro. The Pyro's range is too short to go up against anything with range. Finally the Heavy is far too slow to adapt to other faster team strategies. Restricting classes is only going to make some class combinations far to strong and will in fact imbalance and stagnant the gameplay.
Adding Friendly Fire also kill much of the balance in the game. With Friendly Fire dispensers can no longer be used to create walls and slow down Scouts, or stop Spies as your team members will not clip on them. Also because all team members now clip it further increases the effectiveness of Spies making it even harder to tell them from your team members. Furthermore the Pyro can no longer sweep the base for Spies and is far too much of a danger igniting his whole team in combat to be useful. Similarly with the heavy as well as he can now no longer be used as a meat shield to fire rockets through when penetrating defenses.
I am looking forward to this tournament and am currently pulling together a team to compete in it. However I feel with the current rule set that the game you propose will be heavy on Scouts, Spies, and Engineers with Pyro, Heavy, and Soldier too dangerous to use and will degenerate the game into an unplayable level.
You completely interpret class restrictions as one extreme to the other, nobody in their right mind would go 6 medics, but people would go 3 medics 3 heavy if they chose to. Also class restrictions are not impossible to enforce and you would know this is if you had decent experience in any class based game. Also your aversion to FF intrigues me since without it TF2 takes far less skill and this is a tournament to in fact see who is the best...
Spies are also not hard to spot if you have any coordination of your team whatsoever and if you leave FF off you basically remove that class from the game.
Griffen`
Evo Points: 380
#42 posted Mon Oct 1, 2007 at 2:57 pm CST
Hardcore cant wait
Alcoholocaust
Evo Points: 1
#43 posted Mon Oct 1, 2007 at 9:58 pm CST
Thanks CEVO for launching the first competitive TF2 event.
While I usually like the smallest possible teams, I do agree that 7v7 is probably the better format for TF2 as a game. George's class restrictions seem like a good launching point that we can adjust from as needed.
My other concern is not removing Sudden Death from comp play. I have a feeling this mechanic gets really, really messy in organized games.
aimology
Evo Points: 12
#44 posted Wed Oct 3, 2007 at 3:33 pm CST
laugh
sizzle
Evo Points: 2
#45 posted Thu Oct 4, 2007 at 6:03 pm CST
my 2 cents:
Assuming 6 vs 6 matches:
I like the idea of allowing teams the ability to play to their own individual strengths. For example say a team has 3 great snipers and they only run snipers are defense. In my opinion they should be allowed to play their best players at whatever class they are great at, unless the class itself is over powered.
I believe medic is over powered, because the uber effect is amazing and since the game is so slow just healing your team mates is a huge advantage. The medic also has too much synergy with the other classes.
I believe that the demoman class should also be restricted since each demoman can lay all 8 sticky pipes down. I believe that demomen could choke a spawn point if allowed more than 1 per team. If at some point valve sets a limit to how many sticky pipes can be placed down at one time for the team I would consider lifting the restriction.
No other classes should be restricted in my opinion at this point in beta.
I kind of like restricting soldier to only 2 per team but that is because it forces teams to not rely on soldier. I fear that if that restriction was removed a lot of teams would run a lot more soldiers. I don't know if that is necessarily bad for match play though. All the games I've played in I think soldier has been restricted to two per team. I would vote for them to be unrestricted even though I have worries.
i208khonsu
Evo Points: 6
#46 posted Thu Oct 4, 2007 at 6:19 pm CST
Flandez wrote:
You completely interpret class restrictions as one extreme to the other, nobody in their right mind would go 6 medics, but people would go 3 medics 3 heavy if they chose to. Also class restrictions are not impossible to enforce and you would know this is if you had decent experience in any class based game. Also your aversion to FF intrigues me since without it TF2 takes far less skill and this is a tournament to in fact see who is the best...
Spies are also not hard to spot if you have any coordination of your team whatsoever and if you leave FF off you basically remove that class from the game.
I guess playing and casting Guild Wars competitively for 2 years doesn't count as a class based game. I'm appalled how people throw the word skill around as if changing rule sets actually changes who the more skilled and victorious teams are.
Changing rules like FF only changes the tactics that skilled players use to achieve victory, it doesn't magically players which are less skilled bettered by changing a rule. I don't care if the competition is as random as Rock Paper Scissors, the better player will always be able to out play the other.
Some times I think that you many American FPS players would put rules on a game as trivial as Rock Paper Scissors that would limit how many times you throw paper. In fact that's pretty much what you're arguing right here with class limitations.
Furthermore what would the problem be with 3x3 Medic Heavy if you could counter that with 3x3 Spy Demo?
Justice-P-
Evo Points: 10
#47 posted Fri Oct 5, 2007 at 9:39 am CST
Does anyone know what impact the divisions have? We are a team comprised of east, west and central players. We'd like to play on central servers for obvious reasons, but depending on the start times may have to register for the pacific division so our west coast players can make the games. Can anyone advise?
Also, LAN play aside, the game was clearly meant for larger teamsizes than 6v6. I hope there is at least one league out there with the gumption to run a 10v10 division so us qwtf players can relive the good old days. :)
Thanks,
Justice-P-
(previously Justice[GT])
sPloOsH
Evo Points: 4
#48 posted Fri Oct 5, 2007 at 1:39 pm CST
Justice-P- wrote:
Does anyone know what impact the divisions have? We are a team comprised of east, west and central players. We'd like to play on central servers for obvious reasons, but depending on the start times may have to register for the pacific division so our west coast players can make the games. Can anyone advise?
Also, LAN play aside, the game was clearly meant for larger teamsizes than 6v6. I hope there is at least one league out there with the gumption to run a 10v10 division so us qwtf players can relive the good old days. :)
Thanks,
Justice-P-
(previously Justice[GT])
I think if anyone could understand why 10v10 wouldnt be that popular i'd think it'd be you =)
Long time no see man....
Justice-P-
Evo Points: 10
#49 posted Fri Oct 5, 2007 at 2:10 pm CST
sPloOsH wrote:
I think if anyone could understand why 10v10 wouldnt be that popular i'd think it'd be you =)
Long time no see man....
Why is that? I find it way more fun to play with 10v10. I think the maps were designed to support that many players, if not more. 99.9% of the time spent playing the game is online, yet I feel we let LAN play dictate rules and regulations. CSS may be just as fun with 5s as it would be with more, I don't know. But part of what makes TF fun is the variety of classes all working together. 6 players isnt a lot of variety, regardless of class limitations. I'm happy to play 6s if that's all there is, but I hope a league out there will offer 8v8+.
Flashbang
Evo Points: 1
#50 posted Fri Oct 5, 2007 at 5:44 pm CST
Just a question if we wanted to sign up as a lan team how would do this? Since the Valve Cyber Cache logs into random steam accounts that valve has pooled just for it. Try and get an answer back to me fast please :)
